"Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in
news:gbig31.13c.0@poczta.onet.pl:

> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
> news:Xns9B2571626BE02tegger@208.90.168.18...
>>> Thanks. I was hoping I have some blown fuse or something...
>>> But if this is once again cutting corners, than I have to deal with
>>> it.
>>
>> It's called keeping the cost down. There's always intense pressure in
>> the low and mid-priced markets to cut costs (which keeps the price
>> down). Add to that the huge mandated costs of emissions and safety,
>> and something's got to give.
>
> That would be understandable in the lowest priced trims, but I have
> got EX-L with leather - it is really hard to understand that 5 bulbs
> and one more wire in the harness would be so much savings...



It's still a Honda and not a Mercedes. It does not sell for Mercedes money.

Plus, if there were not these apparent cheap-outs, there would be no reason
to upgrade to, say, an Acura, would there? Honda has to try to gently nudge
buyers upstairs, no?



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

I have 08 Ridgeline RTL. Steering wheel is lighted and it is convenient.
Don't know why Honda (and Toyota?) didn't do this previously.

"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9B25816D4B1C0tegger@208.90.168.18...
"Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in
news:gbig31.13c.0@poczta.onet.pl:

> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
> news:Xns9B2571626BE02tegger@208.90.168.18...
>>> Thanks. I was hoping I have some blown fuse or something...
>>> But if this is once again cutting corners, than I have to deal with
>>> it.
>>
>> It's called keeping the cost down. There's always intense pressure in
>> the low and mid-priced markets to cut costs (which keeps the price
>> down). Add to that the huge mandated costs of emissions and safety,
>> and something's got to give.
>
> That would be understandable in the lowest priced trims, but I have
> got EX-L with leather - it is really hard to understand that 5 bulbs
> and one more wire in the harness would be so much savings...



It's still a Honda and not a Mercedes. It does not sell for Mercedes money.

Plus, if there were not these apparent cheap-outs, there would be no reason
to upgrade to, say, an Acura, would there? Honda has to try to gently nudge
buyers upstairs, no?



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Thus spake "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> :

>"ACAR" <dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:84047f08-4afe-4af6-981b-f243157d1fe6@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 25, 7:28 pm, Brian Smith <Hali...@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote:
>>> Reggie Dunlop wrote:
>>>
>>> > You must be an academician and/or a Democrat-- avoiding answering the
>>> > question that was asked while managing to inject some holier than thou,
>>> > condescending piety that overall is a put-down ;-)
>>>
>>> Do you have lights in your light switches in your home? If not
>>> how do
>>> you locate them when you need to turn the lights on in a room when it's
>>> dark?
>>
>> Actually, yes, my light switches are lit. You can have the same after
>> a trip to Home Depot/Lowes. Right next to the illuminated light
>> switches you'll find an array of night lights. I wonder why they sell
>> those to families without young kids?
>>
>> Do you ever lend your car to a friend? Ever drive someone else's car?
>> Ever switch cars with your wife? Maybe there's a reason why other
>> manufacturers manage to illuminate these controls. Face it, Honda is
>> just cutting corners. Like their inability to equip the Accord EX with
>> a power passenger seat.
>
>Another example is the windshield washer fluid bottle.
>Only 2.6 quarts of fluid in the US version. More than a gallon in Canadian
>version.
>Canadian version also has a low fluid level indicator (the bottle has a
>float switch).
>How much did then save in US version doing this ? $10 ? Maybe $50?


What??? $10???? Bottle: maybe $1 difference, if THAT much. Float
switch. Onesie pricing is around $.80. Add almost $.10 worth of
wiring. The computer and software are all there. Another $.10 for
wires to the dash, maybe $.18 for an LED. NRE per vehicle probably
ran under $1.

Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote in
news:2a6rd4dk41lqggabvci506mgj6li37plk5@4ax.com:

> Thus spake "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> :
>
>>"ACAR" <dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:84047f08-4afe-4af6-981b-f243157d1fe6@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com.
>>..
>>> On Sep 25, 7:28 pm, Brian Smith <Hali...@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote:
>>>> Reggie Dunlop wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > You must be an academician and/or a Democrat-- avoiding answering
>>>> > the question that was asked while managing to inject some holier
>>>> > than thou, condescending piety that overall is a put-down ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Do you have lights in your light switches in your home? If
>>>> not
>>>> how do
>>>> you locate them when you need to turn the lights on in a room when
>>>> it's dark?
>>>
>>> Actually, yes, my light switches are lit. You can have the same
>>> after a trip to Home Depot/Lowes. Right next to the illuminated
>>> light switches you'll find an array of night lights. I wonder why
>>> they sell those to families without young kids?
>>>
>>> Do you ever lend your car to a friend? Ever drive someone else's
>>> car? Ever switch cars with your wife? Maybe there's a reason why
>>> other manufacturers manage to illuminate these controls. Face it,
>>> Honda is just cutting corners. Like their inability to equip the
>>> Accord EX with a power passenger seat.
>>
>>Another example is the windshield washer fluid bottle.
>>Only 2.6 quarts of fluid in the US version. More than a gallon in
>>Canadian version.
>>Canadian version also has a low fluid level indicator (the bottle has
>>a float switch).
>>How much did then save in US version doing this ? $10 ? Maybe $50?
>
>
> What??? $10???? Bottle: maybe $1 difference, if THAT much. Float
> switch. Onesie pricing is around $.80. Add almost $.10 worth of
> wiring. The computer and software are all there. Another $.10 for
> wires to the dash, maybe $.18 for an LED. NRE per vehicle probably
> ran under $1.
>



Remember, the US has CAFE. Weight is a BIG issue in CAFE, and every ounce
counts.

As far as price goes, literally every penny counts too, so over however
many tens of thousands of cars, a buck is a huge amount. When I was in the
Atlanta Ford plant some years ago, some of the engineers were involved in a
many-month, laborious process of changing the vent symbols on the Taurus
dash from printed to molded-in. This had turned into a long, drawn-out
thing because the tooling company was having trouble getting the symbols
rotated "just so" on the molds. The savings from molding versus printing?
18¢ per car. 18¢ was a /very/ significant amount. I was told even /five/
cents would be more than important enough to pursue.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Tegger wrote:
> Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote in
> news:2a6rd4dk41lqggabvci506mgj6li37plk5@4ax.com:
>
>> Thus spake "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> :
>>
>>> "ACAR" <dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:84047f08-4afe-4af6-981b-f243157d1fe6@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com.
>>> ..
>>>> On Sep 25, 7:28 pm, Brian Smith <Hali...@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote:
>>>>> Reggie Dunlop wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You must be an academician and/or a Democrat-- avoiding answering
>>>>>> the question that was asked while managing to inject some holier
>>>>>> than thou, condescending piety that overall is a put-down ;-)
>>>>> Do you have lights in your light switches in your home? If
>>>>> not
>>>>> how do
>>>>> you locate them when you need to turn the lights on in a room when
>>>>> it's dark?
>>>> Actually, yes, my light switches are lit. You can have the same
>>>> after a trip to Home Depot/Lowes. Right next to the illuminated
>>>> light switches you'll find an array of night lights. I wonder why
>>>> they sell those to families without young kids?
>>>>
>>>> Do you ever lend your car to a friend? Ever drive someone else's
>>>> car? Ever switch cars with your wife? Maybe there's a reason why
>>>> other manufacturers manage to illuminate these controls. Face it,
>>>> Honda is just cutting corners. Like their inability to equip the
>>>> Accord EX with a power passenger seat.
>>> Another example is the windshield washer fluid bottle.
>>> Only 2.6 quarts of fluid in the US version. More than a gallon in
>>> Canadian version.
>>> Canadian version also has a low fluid level indicator (the bottle has
>>> a float switch).
>>> How much did then save in US version doing this ? $10 ? Maybe $50?
>>
>> What??? $10???? Bottle: maybe $1 difference, if THAT much. Float
>> switch. Onesie pricing is around $.80. Add almost $.10 worth of
>> wiring. The computer and software are all there. Another $.10 for
>> wires to the dash, maybe $.18 for an LED. NRE per vehicle probably
>> ran under $1.
>>
>
>
>
> Remember, the US has CAFE. Weight is a BIG issue in CAFE, and every ounce
> counts.
>
> As far as price goes, literally every penny counts too, so over however
> many tens of thousands of cars, a buck is a huge amount. When I was in the
> Atlanta Ford plant some years ago, some of the engineers were involved in a
> many-month, laborious process of changing the vent symbols on the Taurus
> dash from printed to molded-in. This had turned into a long, drawn-out
> thing because the tooling company was having trouble getting the symbols
> rotated "just so" on the molds. The savings from molding versus printing?
> 18� per car. 18� was a /very/ significant amount. I was told even /five/
> cents would be more than important enough to pursue.
>

especially with ford. they are absolutely incredible in the corners
they cut. and yet their cars are the same price as /far/ superior
product.

relentless pursuit of savings - that's why we don't have safety features
like amber rear turn signals - cheaper to lobby a politician to keep the
nhtsa off their back than it is to pay for a couple of extra bulbs and a
few feet of wire.

"Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in message
news:gbi3kf.75g.0@poczta.onet.pl...
> "Eternal Searcher" <eternalsearcher@yahoo.ca.invalid> wrote in
> message news:gbh3u9$uu6$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>> Pszemol wrote:
>>
>>> Are there supposed to be any backlight behind these audio controls
>>> in 2004
>>> accord coupe EX-L? They look odd at night when dashboard is
>>> lighted but
>>> steering wheel is pitch black...
>>
>> You should know where the buttons are located without having to
>> divert
>> your eyes from the road. So it doesn't matter if they are lit or
>> not.
>
> Maybe in theory this sounds like a good idea...
> But I see many cars having the illumination there and there is no
> problem.

One is always free to purchase one of these many other vehicles if it
is so disturbing to not have lighted controls.....

"Dillon Pyron" <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:2a6rd4dk41lqggabvci506mgj6li37plk5@4ax.com...
> Thus spake "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> :
>
>>"ACAR" <dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:84047f08-4afe-4af6-981b-f243157d1fe6@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Sep 25, 7:28 pm, Brian Smith <Hali...@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote:
>>>> Reggie Dunlop wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > You must be an academician and/or a Democrat-- avoiding
>>>> > answering the
>>>> > question that was asked while managing to inject some holier
>>>> > than thou,
>>>> > condescending piety that overall is a put-down ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Do you have lights in your light switches in your home?
>>>> If not
>>>> how do
>>>> you locate them when you need to turn the lights on in a room
>>>> when it's
>>>> dark?
>>>
>>> Actually, yes, my light switches are lit. You can have the same
>>> after
>>> a trip to Home Depot/Lowes. Right next to the illuminated light
>>> switches you'll find an array of night lights. I wonder why they
>>> sell
>>> those to families without young kids?
>>>
>>> Do you ever lend your car to a friend? Ever drive someone else's
>>> car?
>>> Ever switch cars with your wife? Maybe there's a reason why other
>>> manufacturers manage to illuminate these controls. Face it, Honda
>>> is
>>> just cutting corners. Like their inability to equip the Accord EX
>>> with
>>> a power passenger seat.
>>
>>Another example is the windshield washer fluid bottle.
>>Only 2.6 quarts of fluid in the US version. More than a gallon in
>>Canadian
>>version.
>>Canadian version also has a low fluid level indicator (the bottle
>>has a
>>float switch).
>>How much did then save in US version doing this ? $10 ? Maybe $50?
>
>
> What??? $10???? Bottle: maybe $1 difference, if THAT much. Float
> switch. Onesie pricing is around $.80. Add almost $.10 worth of
> wiring. The computer and software are all there. Another $.10 for
> wires to the dash, maybe $.18 for an LED. NRE per vehicle probably
> ran under $1.

The labor to install is far more costly than the component costs.

"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9B25E77C6CCB1tegger@208.90.168.18...
> Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote in
> news:2a6rd4dk41lqggabvci506mgj6li37plk5@4ax.com:
>
>> Thus spake "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> :
>>
>>>"ACAR" <dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:84047f08-4afe-4af6-981b-f243157d1fe6@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com.
>>>..
>>>> On Sep 25, 7:28 pm, Brian Smith <Hali...@NovaScotia.Canada>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Reggie Dunlop wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > You must be an academician and/or a Democrat-- avoiding
>>>>> > answering
>>>>> > the question that was asked while managing to inject some
>>>>> > holier
>>>>> > than thou, condescending piety that overall is a put-down ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have lights in your light switches in your home?
>>>>> If
>>>>> not
>>>>> how do
>>>>> you locate them when you need to turn the lights on in a room
>>>>> when
>>>>> it's dark?
>>>>
>>>> Actually, yes, my light switches are lit. You can have the same
>>>> after a trip to Home Depot/Lowes. Right next to the illuminated
>>>> light switches you'll find an array of night lights. I wonder why
>>>> they sell those to families without young kids?
>>>>
>>>> Do you ever lend your car to a friend? Ever drive someone else's
>>>> car? Ever switch cars with your wife? Maybe there's a reason why
>>>> other manufacturers manage to illuminate these controls. Face it,
>>>> Honda is just cutting corners. Like their inability to equip the
>>>> Accord EX with a power passenger seat.
>>>
>>>Another example is the windshield washer fluid bottle.
>>>Only 2.6 quarts of fluid in the US version. More than a gallon in
>>>Canadian version.
>>>Canadian version also has a low fluid level indicator (the bottle
>>>has
>>>a float switch).
>>>How much did then save in US version doing this ? $10 ? Maybe $50?
>>
>>
>> What??? $10???? Bottle: maybe $1 difference, if THAT much. Float
>> switch. Onesie pricing is around $.80. Add almost $.10 worth of
>> wiring. The computer and software are all there. Another $.10 for
>> wires to the dash, maybe $.18 for an LED. NRE per vehicle probably
>> ran under $1.
>>
>
>
>
> Remember, the US has CAFE. Weight is a BIG issue in CAFE, and every
> ounce
> counts.
>
> As far as price goes, literally every penny counts too, so over
> however
> many tens of thousands of cars, a buck is a huge amount. When I was
> in the
> Atlanta Ford plant some years ago, some of the engineers were
> involved in a
> many-month, laborious process of changing the vent symbols on the
> Taurus
> dash from printed to molded-in. This had turned into a long,
> drawn-out
> thing because the tooling company was having trouble getting the
> symbols
> rotated "just so" on the molds. The savings from molding versus
> printing?
> 18¢ per car. 18¢ was a /very/ significant amount. I was told even
> /five/
> cents would be more than important enough to pursue.

The mold tooling alone can be very expensive, depending on the amount
of cavities and frame size used. Even for a small machine (30 ton)
with a small frame size, they are in excess of $20k....

>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9B25816D4B1C0tegger@208.90.168.18...
> "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in
> news:gbig31.13c.0@poczta.onet.pl:
>
>> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9B2571626BE02tegger@208.90.168.18...
>>>> Thanks. I was hoping I have some blown fuse or something...
>>>> But if this is once again cutting corners, than I have to deal with
>>>> it.
>>>
>>> It's called keeping the cost down. There's always intense pressure in
>>> the low and mid-priced markets to cut costs (which keeps the price
>>> down). Add to that the huge mandated costs of emissions and safety,
>>> and something's got to give.
>>
>> That would be understandable in the lowest priced trims, but I have
>> got EX-L with leather - it is really hard to understand that 5 bulbs
>> and one more wire in the harness would be so much savings...
>
> It's still a Honda and not a Mercedes. It does not sell for Mercedes
> money.

You do not have to look up at mercedes to find this popular feature...
2004 Honda's Accord direct competitor, 2004 Volkswagen Passat
has all this features, including streering wheel illumination, bigger
windshield washer fluid bottle and the low fluid sensor...

> Plus, if there were not these apparent cheap-outs, there would be no
> reason
> to upgrade to, say, an Acura, would there? Honda has to try to gently
> nudge
> buyers upstairs, no?

Well, if this is your opinion how Acura should upscale their cars, fine...

For me, the proper way would be for Acura to ADD features on top of
these which are common in the car segment where Accord is placed and
not trying to stand out in comparison with Accord just simply by dumbing
down the Accord...

For example they could compete with mercedes,bmw,audi,lexus instead of
adding features which are already available in simple cars like volkswagen
and making a big deal out of it...

"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
news:MisDk.1154$W06.986@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
> "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in message
> news:gbi3kf.75g.0@poczta.onet.pl...
>> "Eternal Searcher" <eternalsearcher@yahoo.ca.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:gbh3u9$uu6$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>
>>>> Are there supposed to be any backlight behind these audio controls in
>>>> 2004
>>>> accord coupe EX-L? They look odd at night when dashboard is lighted but
>>>> steering wheel is pitch black...
>>>
>>> You should know where the buttons are located without having to divert
>>> your eyes from the road. So it doesn't matter if they are lit or not.
>>
>> Maybe in theory this sounds like a good idea...
>> But I see many cars having the illumination there and there is no
>> problem.
>
> One is always free to purchase one of these many other vehicles
> if it is so disturbing to not have lighted controls.....

Why would you state the obvious? This is not the point here...

The argument was made here, that Accord not having illumination
on the steering wheel is intentional and helpful: you do not take the
eyes from the road to "look" at the controls, you need to remember
where there are. Contr argument was that many cars have this
feature without any "harm" to the driver :-) This leads to a believe
that this is just a missing feature and we should not make lame
excuses for honda doing this :-)

We do not buy other cars just because they have illuminated wheel.
We want to drive better accord with illuminated wheel instead of
making lame excuses this is intentionally made for the driver benefit :-)