"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9B25E77C6CCB1tegger@208.90.168.18...
> Remember, the US has CAFE.
> Weight is a BIG issue in CAFE, and every ounce counts.

How CAFE related to the size of the washer fluid bottle?

> As far as price goes, literally every penny counts too, so over however
> many tens of thousands of cars, a buck is a huge amount. When I was in the
> Atlanta Ford plant some years ago, some of the engineers were involved in
> a
> many-month, laborious process of changing the vent symbols on the Taurus
> dash from printed to molded-in. This had turned into a long, drawn-out
> thing because the tooling company was having trouble getting the symbols
> rotated "just so" on the molds. The savings from molding versus printing?
> 18¢ per car. 18¢ was a /very/ significant amount. I was told even /five/
> cents would be more than important enough to pursue.

Many month project ? Multiple engineers working many months???? :-)

Let's estimate such project cost: How much an engineer cost Ford per year?
100k? 150k? I am not talking about salary given to the engineer but the
cost of having one on staff, his salary, medical plan, office space he uses,
software, computers, tools, electricity, coffe he/she drinks, etc, etc...
With salary only 80-90k the total cost will be probably about 150k...
Now we have a "many-month" project, le't say 6 months project and the
minimal 2 engineers working on it to agree with "some engineers" :-)
So engineers cost about 150k plus tooling costs, prototype costs, testing
etc.
Plus their supervisors, review meetings, other people involved...
Probably, in total, we are looking at spending 200k for the changing
symbols.
How many cars we have to sell for 0.18 to break even? 1 milion and 111
thousand.

No wonder Ford is not doing good if thier engineers are wasting their
time and energy on many-month projects saving 18 cents per car...

"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
newsksDk.1155$W06.963@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
>> What??? $10???? Bottle: maybe $1 difference, if THAT much. Float
>> switch. Onesie pricing is around $.80. Add almost $.10 worth of
>> wiring. The computer and software are all there. Another $.10 for
>> wires to the dash, maybe $.18 for an LED. NRE per vehicle probably
>> ran under $1.
>
> The labor to install is far more costly than the component costs.

Labor costs are still there, no matter if the illumination is or is not.
You need to compare assembly cost of the non-illuminated steering
wheel to the assembly cost of the illuminated one...
The difference is probably negledible.

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news6OdnYhD3pY9NUDVnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> relentless pursuit of savings - that's why we don't have safety features
> like amber rear turn signals - cheaper to lobby a politician to keep the
> nhtsa off their back than it is to pay for a couple of extra bulbs and a
> few feet of wire.

That could be also an issue not related to saving money
but simply being "traditionally american car". Note that
some japaneese car companies, including honda, sells
cars like my 2004 Accord coupe in USA with all red rear
lights, just to be perceived as "more american car"...
Honda is not saving any money because they have
spearated bulb and wires for the turn signals - they
just install red covers to pretend they are not japaneese
and not european :-)

Talking about this subject - is there a way to change these
lamps in my coupe to have amber color? Which lamps would
fit my vehicle? Anybody has done the research required?

Pszemol wrote:

> You do not have to look up at mercedes to find this popular feature...
> 2004 Honda's Accord direct competitor, 2004 Volkswagen Passat
> has all this features, including streering wheel illumination, bigger
> windshield washer fluid bottle and the low fluid sensor...

The Passat also has a ton of electrical gremlins to go with all that.

My 2004 Civic has a low fluid sensor, although I haven't checked my manual
to see if that's another Canada-only feature like the larger reservoir.

If you're going to be so picky about such petty issues, sell your Accord and
get something that has the features you want. You need to do the research
first, then buy what meets your requirements.

"Eternal Searcher" <eternalsearcher@yahoo.ca.invalid> wrote in message
news:gbol86$t8i$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Pszemol wrote:
>
>> You do not have to look up at mercedes to find this popular feature...
>> 2004 Honda's Accord direct competitor, 2004 Volkswagen Passat
>> has all this features, including streering wheel illumination, bigger
>> windshield washer fluid bottle and the low fluid sensor...
>
> The Passat also has a ton of electrical gremlins to go with all that.

:-)

> My 2004 Civic has a low fluid sensor, although I haven't checked my manual
> to see if that's another Canada-only feature like the larger reservoir.

That would be very strange to find in lower class car features
which are missing in higher class accord... Especially if somebody
make a remark here thay want to save something for Acuras :-)

> If you're going to be so picky about such petty issues, sell your Accord
> and
> get something that has the features you want. You need to do the research
> first, then buy what meets your requirements.

Relax Tiger! I am not going to sell my nice accord just because it
has a lousy washer fluid bottle :-) I am not that crazy :-)
I have a better idea: I am going to find the bottle taken out from
some junked Canadian Accord and replace it in my Accord! :-))
I have to still find a good place for the sensor lamp :-)))

"Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in message
news:gbo0ia.81g.0@poczta.onet.pl...
> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
> newsksDk.1155$W06.963@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
>>> What??? $10???? Bottle: maybe $1 difference, if THAT much. Float
>>> switch. Onesie pricing is around $.80. Add almost $.10 worth of
>>> wiring. The computer and software are all there. Another $.10 for
>>> wires to the dash, maybe $.18 for an LED. NRE per vehicle probably
>>> ran under $1.
>>
>> The labor to install is far more costly than the component costs.
>
> Labor costs are still there, no matter if the illumination is or is not.
> You need to compare assembly cost of the non-illuminated steering
> wheel to the assembly cost of the illuminated one...
> The difference is probably negledible.

Depends on the added overall tact time for the entire assembly and the LOH
rate.

"Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in message
news:gbnvhm.954.0@poczta.onet.pl...
> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MisDk.1154$W06.986@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
>> "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in message
>> news:gbi3kf.75g.0@poczta.onet.pl...
>>> "Eternal Searcher" <eternalsearcher@yahoo.ca.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:gbh3u9$uu6$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Are there supposed to be any backlight behind these audio controls in
>>>>> 2004
>>>>> accord coupe EX-L? They look odd at night when dashboard is lighted
>>>>> but
>>>>> steering wheel is pitch black...
>>>>
>>>> You should know where the buttons are located without having to divert
>>>> your eyes from the road. So it doesn't matter if they are lit or not.
>>>
>>> Maybe in theory this sounds like a good idea...
>>> But I see many cars having the illumination there and there is no
>>> problem.
>>
>> One is always free to purchase one of these many other vehicles
>> if it is so disturbing to not have lighted controls.....
>
> Why would you state the obvious? This is not the point here...
>

If it bothers you that much, vote with your wallet. If it doesn't bother
you that much, then don't complain about it.

> The argument was made here, that Accord not having illumination
> on the steering wheel is intentional and helpful: you do not take the
> eyes from the road to "look" at the controls, you need to remember
> where there are. Contr argument was that many cars have this
> feature without any "harm" to the driver :-) This leads to a believe
> that this is just a missing feature and we should not make lame
> excuses for honda doing this :-)
>

At this point, it is no longer an argument. The vehicle model year doesn't
have the feature you want. I have no issues with my 04 EX-L non-illuminated
controls.

> We do not buy other cars just because they have illuminated wheel.
> We want to drive better accord with illuminated wheel instead of
> making lame excuses this is intentionally made for the driver benefit :-)

Illumination only gives the perception of being better for those that want
and/or need it. It would add no value for me.

"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:b2TDk.1537$x%.315@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Illumination only gives the perception of being better for those that want
> and/or need it. It would add no value for me.

but you are not the only one here buying honda...

"Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in message
news:gbq056.87o.0@poczta.onet.pl...
> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:b2TDk.1537$x%.315@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> Illumination only gives the perception of being better for those that
>> want and/or need it. It would add no value for me.
>
> but you are not the only one here buying honda...

Why must you state the obvious? ;-)

"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:5NyEk.2130$YU2.1207@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com...
> "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in message
> news:gbq056.87o.0@poczta.onet.pl...
>> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:b2TDk.1537$x%.315@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>> Illumination only gives the perception of being better for those that
>>> want and/or need it. It would add no value for me.
>>
>> but you are not the only one here buying honda...
>
> Why must you state the obvious? ;-)

:-)