On 02/04/2010 08:56 PM, jr92 wrote:
> On Feb 3, 7:19�pm, "tww1491"<twau...@cox.net> wrote:
>> "jim beam"<m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:SYadnYVv5qcHDvTWnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203...autocompanyrec...
>>
>>> "US chides Toyota over recall"
>>
>>> this is back-door protectionist political bullshit.
>>
>>> fact: ford, bmw, and others have all had throttle sensor problems, and in
>>> much greater numbers than toyota.
>>
>>> fact: the media has all but ignored it.
>>
>>> here we are, hot on the heels of political dismay at the unconsidered
>>> consequences of their ridiculous "cash for clunkers" program benefiting
>>> manufacturers of fuel efficient cars, not domestic gas guzzlers, being
>>> subjected to politically motivated hysterical xenophobia.
>>
>>> fact: toyota sells better, more fuel efficient, safer, more reliable
>>> vehicles using american parts and american labor than domestics assembling
>>> their carp from the chinese componentry they import.
>>
>>> if toyota needs to learn a lesson from this fiasco, it's that they need to
>>> show up in washington and hand over their lobbying cash like detroit does,
>>> not be politically naive and simply rely on selling superior product.
>>
>> In the local paper a couple days ago, a 79 year old women crashed into a
>> veterinarian's office claiming that the gas pedal on her new Toyota stuck.
>> The dealer found nothing wrong with the car. With that story in the paper
>> were reports of drivers complaining to the local Toyota dealer that they
>> received speeding tickets because of "stuck" pedals. And so it has begun.
>> And yet much more to come.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>
>
> That does not mean that Toyota does not have problems with sticking
> accelerators.
>
>
> Fact#1
>
> Toyota is selling products in which sometimes, the accelerator sticks
> open, creating a safety hazard.

all 12? and both [as in TWO] fatal crash vehicles were operated by
drivers apparently incapable of using brakes, ignition switch and
neutral transmission that would have prevented anything other than
inconvenience of having to pull over to the side of the road.

frod sell /more/ - MANY more vehicles with faulty throttles. wtf is the
outrage over that? same with bmw.


>
>
> Fact:#2
>
> There are some people who will try to take advantage of the situation
> for monetary gain.

yeah - our elected "representatives" that are accepting the detroit
[translation: foreign importer] dollar ahead of domestically [toyota]
produced vehicles.


>
>
> Fact# 3
>
> Fact number 2 does not mean Fact number 1 does not exist.

oh, #2 exists all right.

On 02/04/2010 08:49 PM, jr92 wrote:
> On Feb 3, 10:17�am, jim beam<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203...autocompanyrec...
>>
>> "US chides Toyota over recall"
>>
>> this is back-door protectionist political bullshit.
>
>
>
>
> You mean, like the Japanese version of protectionism that, in 2008,
> exported over 2 million vechicles to the US, while at the same time,
> only allowing 12 thousand American nameplates to be imported
> there??????

no, i mean the us protectionism that hypocritically masquerades detroit
brands as "domestic" when all the brakes, steering gear, driveshafts,
instruments, seats, etc. are imported from china killing american companies.


>
>
> Or the type of protectionism that Japan displayed when they had their
> own "cash for clunkers" program, but excluded the handful of American
> nameplates that WERE sold there from the program???????

cash for clunkers was ridiculously ill-conceived idiocy. it would have
been cheaper and better for the american public to divide the money
among the few remaining detroit workers and close the money-sucking
dinosaurs for which they "work".


>
>
> Sounds fair to me, I guess, if I were from Japan.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> fact: ford, bmw, and others have all had throttle sensor problems, and
>> in much greater numbers than toyota.
>>
>> fact: the media has all but ignored it.
>
>
>>
>
> Amazing statement.
>
> For over three decades, the media has lamblasted American autos for
> everything from interior light bulbs burning out, to weather stripping
> dry-rotting after 10 years. They hammered away repeatedly at the "lack
> of American reliability until many, who did not check things out on
> their own, began to believe them.

go to a junk yard buddy. you'll see domestic vehicles by the thousand,
10 years and younger. you'll see japanese 15 years and older. the
domestics are worn out. the japanese are there simply because their
drivers got bored.

nothing speaks to reliability facts better than a junkyard.


>
>
> Now, the worm is beginning to turn, and there are those who believed
> what the media said for thirty years, are accusing them of the same
> things they did against American nameplates.

hey, i'm a patriot and i'll always buy domestic when it makes sense.
but detroit vehicles are unbelievable crap. and i don't like being
ripped off by mercenary a-holes that try to sell me vehicles they /know/
to be defective - frod and their exploder fiasco. and i don't like
having to pay through the nose to keep gas guzzling unreliable pieces of
s. on the road when i can buy japanese and actually get a reliable vehicle.


>
>
> Maybe turn-a-bout IS fair play!

telling the truth is fair play. detroit produces garbage and expects
the tax payer to bail out their inability to produce vehicles properly.


>
>
>
>
>
>> here we are, hot on the heels of political dismay at the unconsidered
>> consequences of their ridiculous "cash for clunkers" program benefiting
>> manufacturers of fuel efficient cars, not domestic gas guzzlers, being
>> subjected to politically motivated hysterical xenophobia.
>>
>
>
>
>
> Kinda funny how it took about 20 MILLION

ok dude, now you're just a bullshitter.


> Toyota recalls over the past
> 3 or 4 years before it became politically motivated, or a "hysterical
> xeonphobia."
>
>
> Hell , a good chunk of the MILLIONS of recalls happened well before it
> became "chic' to knock Toyota.
>
>
> The sludging engines, or rusting supensions were known well before the
> US government began ownership in GM or Chysler, so there was nothing
> to be gained by the US pressuring Toyota into making recalls. There
> goes the 'conflict of interest" argument.
>
>
> And BTW, if you believe Toyota has NOT been spending bundles of money
> lobbying Washington, then YOU are more naive than you claim Toyota is.
>
>
>
>
>> fact: toyota sells better, more fuel efficient, safer, more reliable
>> vehicles using american parts and american labor than domestics
>> assembling their carp from the chinese componentry they import.
>>
>
>
> Really, you didn't make a single factual statement at all in this
> paragrah.
>
>
> Matter of fact, just the opposite of what you stated is actually true.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> if toyota needs to learn a lesson from this fiasco, it's that they need
>> to show up in washington and hand over their lobbying cash like detroit
>> does, not be politically naive and simply rely on selling superior product.
>

"Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote in
news:4b6b665b$0$20568$ce5e7886@news-radius.ptd.net:

> It's the fault of the Unions? I thought it was the fault of
> President Bush



Obama is a union stooge. He's even admitted it.


--
Tegger

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9D15EF00234FAjyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.4 4:


>
>
> OTOH,it might be just that the media began NOTICING the SUV
> rollovers,and reporting nationally on every one that happened,instead
> of just local reporting.
>
> Kinda like reaching critical mass.... ;-)



There's something to that, too. Now that this is in the news,
incidents will spike simply because now EVERYTHING will be blamed
on stuck pedals until proven otherwise.



>
> Now,I've been reading that the Obama administration's -reaction- to
> the Toyota recall may be due to union influence,considering Toyota is
> NON-union and a "foreign" automaker. (although it's cars have more
> domestic content than many "American" vehicles,that may be made in
> Canada or Mexico.



See here for more:
<http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2010/02/03/terence-corcoran-the-war-on-toyota.aspx>




--
Tegger

jr92 <coachrose13@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:28a1db53-7537-473d-8873-d2afacbd189a@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:

> On Feb 3, 10:17*am, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203...autocompanyrec.
>> ..
>>
>> "US chides Toyota over recall"
>>
>> this is back-door protectionist political bullshit.
>
>
>
>
> You mean, like the Japanese version of protectionism that, in 2008,
> exported over 2 million vechicles to the US, while at the same time,
> only allowing 12 thousand American nameplates to be imported
> there??????



So what? Maybe the Japs simply don't like our cars. Ever thought of that?
If WE won't buy them, why would THEY?

There's a reason Toyota has the market share they do, in spite of all the
hatred directed against them from certain quarters.



--
Tegger

jr92 <coachrose13@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:a47b30e1-88d4-48d0-b605-2ca578017e50@m31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:


>
>
>
> That does not mean that Toyota does not have problems with sticking
> accelerators.



What about Ford? They account for 28% of SUA incidents. How come nobody's
up in arms about that?


>
>
> Fact#1
>
> Toyota is selling products in which sometimes, the accelerator sticks
> open, creating a safety hazard.



Twelve confirmed stuck-pedal incidents in 2.3 million vehicles. That's
0.00052%.

And of the five deaths so far, at least four had nothing to do with the CTS
pedal assembly.



>
>
> Fact:#2
>
> There are some people who will try to take advantage of the situation
> for monetary gain.



Like the labor unions. They stand to gain mightily from this, in addition
to getting revenge against Toyota for shutting down NUMMI.


>
>
> Fact# 3
>
> Fact number 2 does not mean Fact number 1 does not exist.
>


No, but "Fact #1" seems to be heavily overblown just now...


--
Tegger

On 2/4/10 10:29 PM, in article
Xns9D15EF00234FAjyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.44, "Jim Yanik"
<jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

> "E. Meyer" <e.p.meyer@verizon.net> wrote in
> news:C7906C39.17000%e.p.meyer@verizon.net:
>
>> On 2/3/10 7:28 PM, in article
>> geWdnbQpzPojv_fWnZ2dnUVZ_rudnZ2d@giganews.com, "dbu''"
>> <nospam@nobama.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <Xns9D14C85F6C360tegger@208.90.168.18>,
>>> Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "tww1491" <twaugh5@cox.net> wrote in
>>>> news:Fooan.26826$fu3.6796@newsfe12.iad:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:SYadnYVv5qcHDvTWnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if toyota needs to learn a lesson from this fiasco, it's that they
>>>>>> need to show up in washington and hand over their lobbying cash
>>>>>> like detroit does, not be politically naive and simply rely on
>>>>>> selling superior product.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In the local paper a couple days ago, a 79 year old women crashed
>>>>> into a veterinarian's office claiming that the gas pedal on her new
>>>>> Toyota stuck. The dealer found nothing wrong with the car. With
>>>>> that story in the paper were reports of drivers complaining to the
>>>>> local Toyota dealer that they received speeding tickets because of
>>>>> "stuck" pedals. And so it has begun. And yet much more to come.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Keep in mind that there have been exactly twelve (12) confirmed
>>>> incidents of actual stuck gas pedals on Toyotas since October.
>>>> Worldwide. Over 2.3 million vehicles.
>>>>
>>>> That's 0.00052%, in case anybody's counting.
>>>
>>> That is well within any reasonable sample of defects for the NASA
>>> space program parts!!!
>>>
>>> THIS has been wildly overblown. BUT....Toyota has been up to the
>>> challenge. They will have it fixed. The Toyota vehicles will be
>>> better than the space shuttle after all is said and done.
>>
>> I remember a month or two after the overturning Ford Explorer fiasco
>> hit the press there was suddenly an epidemic of SUVs of all makes and
>> models flipping over on their sides at every intersection. Before all
>> the publicity, I don't remember ever seeing an overturned SUV.
>> Strange things happen when people start thinking they can cash in.
>>
>>
>
> OTOH,it might be just that the media began NOTICING the SUV rollovers,and
> reporting nationally on every one that happened,instead of just local
> reporting.

I don't think so. I suddenly was passing 2 or three on my way to work every
day & they weren't just Fords. Toyota 4 runners, Nissan Pathfinders, you
name it. It was suddenly, locally, just like the Simpsons episode (gentle
sweeping curve and all the SUVs on the road fell over and exploded). I have
little doubt what was going on.


>
> Kinda like reaching critical mass.... ;-)
>
> Now,I've been reading that the Obama administration's -reaction- to the
> Toyota recall may be due to union influence,considering Toyota is NON-union
> and a "foreign" automaker. (although it's cars have more domestic content
> than many "American" vehicles,that may be made in Canada or Mexico.
>

This I do believe.

> On the Prius brake/cruise control problem,considering that car is a hybrid
> electric(with integral computer control of throttle/braking),I can see
> software bugs cropping up. Sometimes it takes a while to encounter a SW
> bug,particularly under unusual conditions. Like what happens if a ROM's
> data is corrupted;lose a byte here or there,in the wrong place,and you have
> a potentially hazardous condition waiting to be discovered.There's all
> sorts of reasons memory data could get corrupted,AFTER the car is shipped
> and sold.
> At least aircraft have redundant systems.
>
>
> that's why I'm not so hot on drive-by-wire autos;SW glitches.
>

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9D15EF00234FAjyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.4 4:


>
> On the Prius brake/cruise control problem,considering that car is a
> hybrid electric(with integral computer control of throttle/braking),I
> can see software bugs cropping up. Sometimes it takes a while to
> encounter a SW bug,particularly under unusual conditions. Like what
> happens if a ROM's data is corrupted;lose a byte here or there,in the
> wrong place,and you have a potentially hazardous condition waiting to
> be discovered.There's all sorts of reasons memory data could get
> corrupted,AFTER the car is shipped and sold.
> At least aircraft have redundant systems.
>
>
> that's why I'm not so hot on drive-by-wire autos;SW glitches.
>
>

here's a timely article today about auto electronic systems and the Toyota
problems;
Prius Problems Put Spotlight On Car Electronics
http://newsmax.com/US/US-TEC-Toyota-...2/04/id/349021

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

(Cross postings deleted, automatically)

What is the name of that river in Egypt?


"jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:upCdnWqpHesIHvbWnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> On 02/04/2010 07:51 AM, Mike Hunter wrote:
>> According to todays Tribune Newspapers, the Chairman of the House
>> Oversight
>> Committee is stating Toyota will be asked about runaways problems with
>> the
>> Tacoma truck.
>>
>> The NHTSA has received over 100 complaints about sudden uncontrolled
>> accelerations problem on the Tacoma, their truck that does NOT use the
>> same
>> pedal assembly as the other recalled Toyotas.
>>
>> The article also refers to Japans Transport Ministry releasing that their
>> have been numerous complaints about "braking problems" with NEW
>> generation
>> Prius. Toyota admits they are addressing braking problems in previous
>> Prius models but they are "unaware" of problems in the NEW generation
>> Prius.
>>
>> The ever growing issue over sudden uncontrolled acceleration in most
>> every
>> type of Toyota vehicle is having a sensitizing effect on consumers around
>> the world and Toyotas confusing responses are not helping the situation.
>> Curious ah?
>
> dude, at this stage it's mob hysteria. fact is, frod have defects that
> have killed thousands of americans. but rather than spend money on proper
> design and execution, they instead show up in d.c. with lobbyists and
> spend hundreds of millions of dollars making "contributions" to [which is
> MUCH cheaper b.t.w.] our representatives so they can stay off the
> political/legal radar screen.
>
> toyota, naively, just make great cars under the false impression that
> they're selling into a meritocracy that plays fair. and they are so
> wrong. but toyota, inadvertently, are shining the harsh light of reality
> on the utter debasement of american values with this bullshit from
> politicians that are prepared to take the dollar and turn a blind eye to
> manslaughter rather than stand up for the lives and values of citizens
> that elected them. it's an utter disgrace.
>
>
>
>>
>> "Tegger"<invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9D148F020FD93tegger@208.90.168.18...
>>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in
>>> news:SYadnYVv5qcHDvTWnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
>>>
>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100203...tocompanyrecal
>>>> ltoyota_20100203001517
>>>>
>>>> "US chides Toyota over recall"
>>>>
>>>> this is back-door protectionist political bullshit.
>>>>
>>>> fact: ford, bmw, and others have all had throttle sensor problems, and
>>>> in much greater numbers than toyota.
>>>>
>>>> fact: the media has all but ignored it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Currently Toyota accounts for 41% of all unintended acceleration
>>> incidents.
>>> Ford accounts for 28%. Both Toyota and Ford have about a 16% market
>>> share
>>> apiece.
>>>
>>> GM and Chrysler have UA numbers smaller than their market shares. I
>>> don't
>>> know the exact number.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tegger
>>>
>>
>>
>

"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9D16141D6B7B6tegger@208.90.168.18...
> jr92 <coachrose13@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:a47b30e1-88d4-48d0-b605-2ca578017e50@m31g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>>
///snipped///
>> That does not mean that Toyota does not have problems with sticking
>> accelerators.
>
>
>
> What about Ford? They account for 28% of SUA incidents. How come nobody's
> up in arms about that?

I would redirect your attention to the overblown Explorer fiasco. Seems like
there were quite a few up in arms about that. Could it possibly be that of
the 28% of SUA incidents you attribute to Ford that only a miniscule part
were mechanical failures? Just asking.
What I have noticed is this - there is a certain fraction of the population
(any population) that is overjoyed to see one of the "Big Dogs" get whipped.
I would bet that there was a similar reaction to Ford's problems, to GM's
misfortunes, and if Ferrari or Rolls-Royce suffered a similar disaster,
there would be a collection of "experts" that would be delighted and would
go out of their way to denigrate the marque.....I guess its just human
nature to rejoice when the high and mighty are fallen.
DaveD